Anyway, I think this thread is cooked, my last comment only appeared recently because it contained a link and was, therefore, held in the moderation queue for a couple of days, I didn’t mean to resurrect this zombie. Peace and love, everyone.

You need to catch up – this particular incident has moved beyond the old arguments about whether a theme makes sufficient use of WordPress code for the GPL to apply, that all became moot when it became clear that actual code had been copied and pasted into Chris’ product. That is the basis on which Matt was going to sue,

Just because this particular incident has moved beyond derivative doesn’t negate the argument as a whole. You are calling those who would dare release a theme under a non-GPL license parasites. I was simply explaining how you’re wrong as they have solid legal footing for such a stance.

So anyways, given his stubbornness, you have to wonder why Pearson finally decided to go GPL – was it fear of litigation, or damage to the brand & sales caused by the flak (and Matts theme offer). All of the above?

This isn’t public space. There no 1st amendment here. There is no Fairness Doctrine here. We are all here voluntarily and are graciously allowed by Jeff to express our varied opinions. alongside his.

We are here because we like WPTavern and Jeff. We want to see it get better. We will express concern when it takes a turn for the worst. Better to voice concern the first time than not say anything and leave x posts later.

Further, I think Jeff is right to voice whatever opinions he feels are in the best interest of the community and I think that is exactly what he does.

And don’t think this has anything to with making the community better.

The whole idea that somehow he needs to be an impartial moderator is ridiculous.

No need to a moderator. Try to be impartial in the relaying and commenting of news. Yes. Be impartial in a weekly editorial on what he thinks about stuff? No =). Its a great place and I want it to get better and Jeff to make more money.

Anyone that has paid attention to Jeff for any length of time know what a evangelist for WordPress, I fully expect him in that role to express himself.

No one has said otherwise. But sometime it gets a little more of evangelizing Matt than WordPress =). Compare this post with “Automatically Correcting The WordPress Mistake”. That one was really good in relaying the history, the issue etc and have well mannered editorial comment. Thats the way to do it =).

@Chris Bennett – you make a point, and I I’ve rethought it some, but I was NOT trying to equate dependent with derivative. I agree they are different cases. I spoke to strongly to suggest calling a single function made always made a work derivative. Here’s the thing though, when you choose to make a function call of GPL code you agree to the terms of using that body of work, not just that function.

In a legal sense, that statement just isn’t true. There is absolutely nothing legally binding to the GPL anyone creating a WordPress Theme, because a Theme is not inherently derivative. The only thing that would cause a Theme developer to “agree to the terms of using [WordPress]” would be to incorporate actual, copyrightable WordPress core code into the Theme. Other than that instance, the developer is in no way bound or encumbered by WordPress’ GPL.

I’m not saying you couldn’t duplicate that function into your own code and claim fair use of it, just that calling it directly from a GPL body of work means you are agreeing to the terms of that whole work.

Simply put: no. The courts have been quite clear: mere linking does not render a work derivative. See Sega, Sony, and Galoob.

Further while I agree there is a difference between dependent and derivative, I still feel all themes are derivative, however some plug-ins could certainly claim to be dependent without being derivative however. A dependent work would be original from the start and could make a few calls to another work but not make wholesale use of the framework defined in the original GPL work.

Again, this interpretation is at odds with precedent case law. Function calls are “methods of operation” and the means of interoperability, which the courts have clearly established are non-copyrightable content.

A theme is fundamentally interwoven with wordpress code throughout…

No, a Theme exists of its own files. Even when a Theme is aggregated with WordPress core by being placed in the wp-content/themes directory by the end user (not by the developer – a key point), no physical interweaving of WordPress core and WordPress Theme files takes place. A Theme does not physically modify any core WordPress code, and vice versa.

…witness Drew Blas’ analysis of Thesis a theme which Pearson regularly claimed was 99% his original work.

What I’m talking about excludes the Thesis issue – about which I cannot speak with any certainty, since I’ve not seen Thesis’ source code. I’m only talking about Themes in general, under the assumption that core-code copy-pasting is not taking place.

Extending the discussion, a plugin that modified WP’s sidebar widgets for example I would argue is likely derivative, whereas something like pretty link or something that added 100% new functionality might only be dependent and not need to carry the GPL (even if it utilized some fundamental WP functions).

I would contend that merely extending WP_Widgets is not derivative. Modifying a default WordPress Widget would be derivative, because such modification would require incorporation of that Widget’s code into the Theme. But merely extending WP_Widgets to add an original, new Widget is not derivative. In this case, the Theme developer has merely followed the functional specification for adding Widgets.

Further, I think Jeff is right to voice whatever opinions he feels are in the best interest of the community and I think that is exactly what he does. The whole idea that somehow he needs to be an impartial moderator is ridiculous. Anyone that has paid attention to Jeff for any length of time know what a evangelist for WordPress, I fully expect him in that role to express himself.

Further while I agree there is a difference between dependent and derivative, I still feel all themes are derivative, however some plug-ins could certainly claim to be dependent without being derivative however. A dependent work would be original from the start and could make a few calls to another work but not make wholesale use of the framework defined in the original GPL work. A theme is fundamentally interwoven with wordpress code throughout, witness Drew Blas’ analysis of Thesis a theme which Pearson regularly claimed was 99% his original work. Extending the discussion, a plugin that modified WP’s sidebar widgets for example I would argue is likely derivative, whereas something like pretty link or something that added 100% new functionality might only be dependent and not need to carry the GPL (even if it utilized some fundamental WP functions).

Speaking out against the core team’s decisions doesn’t make you an outcast or anything like that in the community.

Probably depends on the decisions in question as with the whole GPL debacle =). And if you have any popularity to begin with.

WPTavern doesn’t define itself as personal blog, it defines itself as community portal. By giving such one-sided coverage it contributes to increasing tension on subject, not mitigating it.

Of course it’s Jeffro’s editorial choice. But it also hard to take such post as on behalf of “warm and inviting community”.

Speaking out against the core team’s decisions doesn’t make you an outcast or anything like that in the community.

Tell that to Chris Pearson. :) He must be feeling verrry welcomed in community these days.

For those of you saying Jeff shouldn’t give a one-sided opinion of this or just flat out say what he feels, you guys are in the wrong. This is his blog, and he can write whatever he pleases. As far as I know, Jeff has never said that he’s an unbiased reporter of events.

Speaking out against the core team’s decisions doesn’t make you an outcast or anything like that in the community. I openly speak out against some decisions when I feel strongly enough about them and am still friends with some of these guys. Heck, I’ve had at least four nice, civil chats with members of the core team since I wrote an article bashing the capital P filter.