bbPress To Become More Of A WordPress Plugin Instead?!

[Mark McWilliams]

I guess some news is better than no news, but when Leland (@themelab) posted on Twitter about a new post over on bbPress.org I though I'd go take a look like most other people. Should take a look yourself if you've not!

http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/2009-12-09-meetup/

Oh yeah, it involves a lot of reading, but anyway. I was quite shocked when I read about bbPress becoming a plugin for WordPress, and possibly also keeping a standalone version, but I think that was ruled out in the end? - I'm sure with a lot of work from the bbPress Team would make the plugin work well with WP, afterall, 80% of people also have a site with their forum.

What about that other 20% though, yeah, that's what I though about most! Not everyone is going to want to install WordPress, just so they can create a forum using bbPress, afterall, WP is most associated to people as being blogging software. (Am I not right?)

Don't get mew wrong though, while Tweeting with Frank (I think!!) from BloggingPro (@blpro) right now, if it helps make posting, templates and whatnot all easier then thats got to be a good sign! From the perspective of what bbPress was setup in the first place to do, was be a standalone software product, without all that extra bloat vBulletin, or phpBB brought!

If I'd have know the meetup was going to take place, I'd have popped along and voiced my opinion, did you know it was on and join in the chat?

With that said, what's everyone's thoughts, I'm sure with the power of Twitter, any feedback from here will get to people like Matt (@photomatt) and other members of the bbPress Team, regardless of if it's just a forum moderator! ...

[Ryan]

What on earth difference does it make?

Choice (1): Install bbPress
Choice (2): Install WordPress and a plugin

Both options behave identically, but the WordPress route gives you instant support for every WordPress plugin.

Do you think BuddyPress should also be a standalone product? If it was announced that it was becoming a standalone product I think most people would find that quite bizarre since WordPress is capable of handling almost all of the functionality of BuddyPress itself and by adding it as a plugin you get all of the benefits of WordPress, just like bbPress will if this is the route taken. Otherwise you are just replicating effort.

The only reasonable reason I've heard for keeping them separate is for performance reasons as bbPress is a bit faster than WordPress. I can't think of any other possible negative to it.

If I'd have know the meetup was going to take place, I'd have popped along and voiced my opinion, did you know it was on and join in the chat?

Yes. It was a meetup to hammer out some of the ideas put forth recently during an email to and fro between Matt and some of us who had expressed an interest in helping develop the software. It was actually me who originally suggested ditching bbPress and using WordPress instead. Although it looks like the others were more keen on building something which would add on to WordPress rather than just use it as is with a custom "forum" theme.

[Mark McWilliams]

What on earth difference does it make?

I hope that wasn't meant as it does when you read it, I am well aware of both the options, but to be honest I'd have said it does make quite a bit of difference! (...But I'll address your questions first!)

Do you think BuddyPress should also be a standalone product? ... Get all of the benefits of WordPress, just like bbPress will if this is the route taken.

No, I don't happen to think that BuddyPress should have been a standalone product, for the simple reason that it fits in well with WordPress, you blog and network, and blog some more!

BuddyPress also started off as a plugin, whereas bbPress didn't, it started as a standalone product because Matt wanted a simple piece of forum software without all the extras you just didn't need.

Making bbPress just a plugin, even a canonical plugin, it'll not answer the major question of how people will upgrade from the standalone version, to the plugin, that in itself is going to cause problems! - Yes, something will most likely be able to be written, but WHY go to all that extra work?

It was a meetup to hammer out some of the ideas put forth recently during an email to and from between Matt and some of us who had expressed an interest in helping develop the software.

That explains why! ;)

It was actually me who originally suggested ditching bbPress and using WordPress instead. Although it looks like the others were more keen on building something which would add on to WordPress rather than just use it as is with a custom "forum" theme.

If I have read that right, an addon to WordPress would be much more popular IMHO than building it right into WordPress, while I know it's more than just a blogging platform, I'm not sure you could bring forum software into it?

...

I'm hoping some thing might become more clear after Matt puts up the survey that was talked about, it'll surely help find out what current and future bbPress users actually want? - I'm willing to bet that we'll most likely be surprised, but until it's even up, there's nothing to talk about.

Before I go again, like I did state above, I'm all for having it as a plugin, it's just quite hard to imagine it as one right now, as I'm sure you can appreciate! Yes the integration would be SUPERB, and access to ALL plugins on the repository couldn't be better, but I just can't stop thinking what EVERYONE ELSE would want to see?

At the end of the day, plugin or not, I'll still use bbPress! But for a forum only, as the main site, I still find it hard to think why I should install WordPress just to power the bbPress forums. (And I'll not be the only one to say, or think that!) To continue on with this slightly, if I already have a WP installation, but would like bbPress to appear on a sub-domain, am I going to have to install another copy of WP, when I'd much rather install a bbPress install? #didanyoneforgotaboutsubdomains

I'd love to hear what anyone else has to say though!

[Rarst]

I don't have forum at my blog, but I will probably have to add one in the future. Comments get cramped when people start to shoot hundreds of words. :)

So in my situation I am more interested in solution that can be natively and easily integrated in WP (plugin or whatever) rather than one more standalone forum engine.

What feature I'd really like is kinda dual-view of comment threads. So you can both talk in them under the post like usual comment thread or in forum area like forum thread (with better editor, etc).

If bbpress becomes part of WP this would be most probably done or easy to do.

[andreasnrb]

There is a forum plugin that is good Simple:Press forum

[Ryan]

... while I know it's more than just a blogging platform, I'm not sure you could bring forum software into it?

What can bbPress do that WordPress can't do natively? IMO they essentially do exactly the same thing just with a couple of very minor differences.


The only thing I can think of is that WordPress does not prevent you from putting a post into two separate categories. Other than that, WordPress is already a forum.

Categories = Forums
Posts = New thread post
Comments = replies to threads

All you need is a fix for the "threads in multiple forums" problem and you essentially have the exact same functionality as bbPress.

Writing a converter from bbPress -> WordPress would be easy. It's just a matter of grabbing posts from one database table and transposing them to another one and changing a few labels along the way.

All of the bbPress plugins would break, but there's not much that doesn't have an equivalent WordPress version anyway.

Front end registration is easy to do, I've done that once myself. And I'm assuming it wouldn't be too hard to move the edit profile page to the front-end too.

There may be a few other problems I've missed, but the nuts and bolts of it is already there.


It seems the others were more keen on setting up a custom taxonomy system and adding support for having a forum running alongside a blog within the same WordPress installation though which sounds a whole bunch more technical and is well beyond my own meagre abilities.

[Ryan]

There is a forum plugin that is good Simple:Press forum

I wouldn't touch that. I guess some people find it useful, but it doesn't even have a theming system which is something I consider a must for any sort of CMS/forum system.

[Rarst]

@andreasnrb

Went over their site and it seems to even have that comment/forum sync I want listed in features. Features seem nice, I might try it locally.

@Ryan

Their download page says there are "skins". Or is that just CSS layer?..

Anyway if bbPress gets to be WP plugin I guess it's better to wait and see before committing to any engine now.

[Jeffro]

Does this confirm that I was not crazy when I published this poll?

http://www.wptavern.com/listener-pol...rdpress-plugin

:D

[Ryan]

@Ryan

Their download page says there are "skins". Or is that just CSS layer?..

Just a CSS layer. Which would be okay for some situations, but their HTML was pretty stodgy last time I checked.